Posts by Cold Steel

And when it happens, exactly, how will it come about? Will it last minutes, hours, days? Isn't the United Nations supposed to declare war against the WTBTS? If so what will be the catalyst be that causes the U.N. to suddenly abandon issues like Iran acquiring nuclear weapons, the terrorist threat and Korea and suddenly go after a New York publishing company that prints religious materials?

When this great conflagration hits, how long is it expected to last? And what effect did 9/11 have on Armageddon expectations? Did field service shoot up noticably afterwards? Did many "apostates" come running back to the Truth? For those of you who were active back then, did you experience any expectations?

Finally, what is the attitude of most JWs regarding the destruction of non-JWs? Do you think many JWs look forward to it with a certain amount of glee? (In Islamic eschatology, Heaven is multi-tiered, providing faithful Muslims with a bird's eye view of those suffering in Hell. They will be able to enjoy not only seeing people writhing in agony, but hear their cries of pain.) In JW theology, Jews, Muslims, non-JWs, murderers, rapists and especially Catholics will all be destroyed. I'm more interested in the "glee" factor. Do most JWs have a tendency towards compassion regarding those who will be destroyed, or will it be a good-bye and good riddance thing?

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13

We are in God's "image" but God's morality is repugnant

by yadda yadda 2 in

the bible says in genesis that god made human beings in his "image".. this means that christians believe human beings were made with certain attributes that they share with god.

attributes such as intelligence, creativity, an appreciation of beauty, and sharing a similar set of cardinal moral and spiritual values around love, justice, mercy, etc.. this linked article explains it from a christian perspective more fully.http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/deeper-walk/features/23549-qmade-in-the-image-of-godq.

and yet....we find in the old testament that god performs or endorses the most morally repugnant acts, such as ethnic cleansing, killing infants and children, causing famines and plagues, drowning the entire human population except eight persons, etc, etc - all actions that any reasonable and objectively sane person naturally finds morally incomprehensible, disgusting, evil.. this article here outlines some of the actions described in the ot that any normal, sane person would naturally find morally abhorrent:http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/raymond_bradley/moral.html.

Cold Steel

AND YET....we find in the Old Testament that God performs or endorses the most morally repugnant acts, such as ethnic cleansing, killing infants and children, causing famines and plagues, drowning the entire human population except eight persons, etc, etc - all actions that any reasonable and objectively sane person naturally finds morally incomprehensible, disgusting, evil.

Has it occurred to you that you might not be aware of all the angles? I’m not saying this in a negative way, but if there is a God, then he knows all things and is, in fact, incapable of doing evil, being perfect, just, compassionate and the author of our salvation.

God, physically, is in the shape of a man. We are his children and we look like him. How do we know this? John says that Jesus is in the “express image” of the Father. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Yahweh is the Father; however, the early Christians believed that Jesus was, and is, Yahweh. When he was resurrected, he had a physical, glorified body of flesh and bone. He wasn’t a spirit and took great pains to point that out to the apostles, going so far as to eat fish and drink wine. But the scriptures state that Adam was in the image and likeness of God, and that Seth was in the image and likeness of Adam.

As to God’s characteristics, he has the benefit of knowing all things. Before the earth was formed, he knew that Adam and Eve would fall. And when the Israelites were sojourning in the wilderness, the Lord fully knew the wickedness of the Canaanites. These guys that the Lord ordered the Israelites to destroy were not just settlers in the land; they were worshipers of Molech. They engaged in the most debauched sexual passages and caused their children to pass through the fires of Molech. Thus, to the beating of loud drums, they placed infants into the fires to be sacrificed alive. And the thing is, the Lord never destroyed a people without first warning them.

The Lord never acted in a capricious or and unjust way because he’s perfect and he knows all things from the beginning. I think you’re standing in judgment of God either because you don’t believe in him or because you don’t understand all the inputs that he knows of. In an apocryphal book, the Lord shows Enoch the coming flood and at first Enoch is horrified. But when the Lord showed him the wickedness they were involved in, Enoch changed his mind because he then saw things from the Lord’s vantage. And finally, the Lord views death quite differently than we do. The Watchtower crowd believes that death is a cessation of existence; however, I don’t believe this is the case. If both men and animals have spirits, then death is only a change of scenery.

In short, you see things from a very limited, superficial vantage point. The Lord sees everything from the beginning.

38

What IS the meaning and purpose of EVIL?

by Monsieur in

reading about the massacre of the jw family in mexico brought up all kinds of questions again.. from the standpoint of someone who doesn't in believe in 'god' or a 'conventional' god,.

what is the meaning and purpose of evil?.

how does it relate to the overall universe and its balance?

Cold Steel

Cofty: Congratulations you have made the shortlist for the most ignorant post of 2013.

From you, Cofty, this is truly a compliment!

15

Which vacation would the Society prefer a Witness take?

by LogCon in

of the three following vacations, which one would the watchtower society prefer that a witness take?.

1 - a three week working volunteer vacation in bethlehem, to help the international palestinian youth league and the alternative information center, [ a joint palestinian and israeli activist organization] to turn a former israeli army base into a residential compound with a school, a hospital, a youth house and a series of gardens.. 2 - a three week working volunteer vacation to help the local food bank collect, stock and distribute food to the needy.

duties would include preparing tasty and nutritious meals for local residents including families.. 3 - a three week cruise from seattle to hawaii, enjoying all the amenities of the luxury liner, as well as seven days in hawaii enjoying the scenery, the restaurants and the hot, sandy beaches.. if you are able to make more detailed comments i would greatly appreciate it.

Cold Steel

I know this may be radical, but what if you just don't tell anyone that you're going on vacation? Or where you're going? Even if someone hears you're going out of town, you don't have to give them any details, do you? You can say, "Yeah, we've never been to Cancun, so we're taking a week off and going there. We want to see some of the Mayan ruins and get in some scuba diving."

What could they possibly say except, "Have fun!" If they're the kind of people who think demons will come screaming out of the skull walls, would they dare counsel you about it? Even if they did, you can say, "Hmmm...never thought about that. Okay, we'll skip the Mayan ruins and go out on a pirate cruise and buffet. Yo, ho, yo ho, and all that!"
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3

"I wasn't exactly sure if I believed what I so clearly felt!" - Julia Sweeney

by Oubliette in

i wasn't exactly sure if i believed what i so clearly felt!.

in this excellent ted talk, julia sweeney shares how two mormon boys got her to re-examing her own catholic beliefs.. letting go of god.

julia sweeney: letting go of god .

Cold Steel

*Sigh*

As a comedy routine, it needs work. I kept thinking of the Spock v. Q jig, which is much better written.

If anyone wants to know the real story of the Book of Mormon, I recommend they get the book version. Bill Maher made the same point about Mormons and modern Christianity in about fifteen seconds. In other words, any belief system can be ridiculed, and that's good to a point. The problem is that often intelligent people begin thinking someone like a comedian has a point. Comedy relies on both oversimplification and the unexpected.

If one were to go back in time or visit a tribal village in Africa and attempt to explain quantum physics or astrophysics/microphysics and such things like dark matter, atoms, electrons and what have you, you might have a credibility problem. The virgin birth isn't as ridiculous now as it was 200 years ago. Now a woman can become pregnant from a man she's never met and actually spent his entire life on another continent: all with the power of the test tube. Resurrection was an insurmountable problem for the ancient Greeks, though they had their own theological problems. Philosophers would ask Peter why a huge elephant had only four legs to support its immense size while a tiny spider had only eight; and their listeners laughed their heads off and think it was the funniest thing they'd ever heard.

So, again, it's a great comedy gig if you're into such things. Just never take comedians too seriously.

10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

They call the meetings "Bible studies," but the first thing they do is put a small book in your hand and then begin asking leading questions. There wasn't much Bible reading in it. I understand if you ask too many of the wrong questions they leave and never come back. I've even been told some dust their shoes off as a witness against you during the day of judgment.

Is that where they get the saying of "dusting" someone?

If I wanted to find out how JWs interpret a certain chapter or section of scripture, where could I go? Do they print commentaries?

15

Which vacation would the Society prefer a Witness take?

by LogCon in

of the three following vacations, which one would the watchtower society prefer that a witness take?.

1 - a three week working volunteer vacation in bethlehem, to help the international palestinian youth league and the alternative information center, [ a joint palestinian and israeli activist organization] to turn a former israeli army base into a residential compound with a school, a hospital, a youth house and a series of gardens.. 2 - a three week working volunteer vacation to help the local food bank collect, stock and distribute food to the needy.

duties would include preparing tasty and nutritious meals for local residents including families.. 3 - a three week cruise from seattle to hawaii, enjoying all the amenities of the luxury liner, as well as seven days in hawaii enjoying the scenery, the restaurants and the hot, sandy beaches.. if you are able to make more detailed comments i would greatly appreciate it.

Cold Steel

You didn't include doing volunteer work at a blood bank.

17

The Ultimate Jehovah's Witness Question??? dun dun DUN

by runForever in

there is a gray space, unconnected rifts in the truth.

it is a question that once you ask it you will never be the same - like being on the.

event horizon of a black hole.

Cold Steel

Where does the Society leadership justify forcing members to do door to door work? It's NOT in the Bible. It has NO precedent. Apparently the members have let themselves be hogtied into such a movement and rely on magazines instead of the Bible. Haven't they read the book of Acts? John said the gospel would be preached in all nations, and then the end would come. But he didn't say who would do the preaching, and from everything that's been learned about first century Christianity, there's NOTHING to indicate that the general membership would 1) be ordained ministers and 2) that they would go out in twos to preach.

Seventh Day Adventists don't do it. Miller didn't do it. No other religious sect does it and Jesus never told the membership in his day to do it. Instead, elders, priests, teachers, deacons, bishops, seventy and others were called of God and ordained by those in authority. Speaking of the high priesthood, Paul said no one takes this honor unto himself but he who is called of God as was Aaron. (Heb. 5:3) How was Aaron called? See Exodus 28. He was called when God gave Moses a revelation specifically telling him to separate Aaron and his sons and clothe them with holy priesthood garments so he could serve in the priest's office. He had nothing to do with his own calling.

JWs quote Matthew 19, but only the part in red do they quote. What comes before isn't quoted:

Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

First, the "eleven" apostles (who were called and ordained) were the ones being addressed. Jesus is worshiped and tells the apostles that "all power" has been given him. The reason is because he is the God of Israel. He told the apostles to go into all the world and to preach the gospel. We know these apostles appointed and ordained bishops and established churches, and that they called missionaries to preach the gospel. But nowhere did he say that baptized members had any priesthood powers or the authority to baptize others.

So all this business of logging hours and going out on weekends to do this preaching is a manmade doctrine and done with no authority whatsoever. So it makes me wonder if someone is baptized into the Society and decides to just go to church and not do missionary work, what would happen? Would they be disfellowshiped or shunned?

Didn't any of you guys ever question all the Pioneer stuff and the recording of hours? Back in the early 70s, JWs would write on the walls of apartment buildings in discreet places showing dates and areas tracted. It would be in the format of something like a tic-tac-toe grid. They still do that?

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10

Bible Study to Service: How Long?

by Cold Steel in

someone agrees to a bible study and it goes very well.

the investigator answers all the questions correctly and shows a great interest in the message.

how long does it usually take before he/she is urged to do field work?

Cold Steel

Why did you investigate it so long? I'm reading Kyria Abraham's book, I'M PERFECT, YOU'RE DOOMED, and finished another one, and both authors talk about how local leaders butted into their lives to incredible degrees. The JWs have ruined a lot of lives by keeping people from pursuing higher education and better jobs. Certainly they'll stay home tonight so they can see who Red John is!

What really gets me, though, was the pressure to live in certain places, conduct business in certain places and be so judgmental in condemning everone but themselves to eternal death.